THE STIMULEYE talked with Masa on the outlook of publishing and the editors future role, but also his recent book EDITORIAL PARADISE in which he is looking on his past editorial work. A reflection in a radical manner, rarely dared by others of his guild.

An edit of an edit, a compilation of compilations?
He’d been advised by a fellow columnist that “When an editor enters the spotlight, he automatically announces that it is time for him to go” he was told, as well as “an expression reaches a deadlock the moment it becomes self-referential”.

“But wait a minute,” he writes in his foreword, “Godard and Truffaut initiated the Nouvelle Vague with their filmic reflections on film; contemporary art has developed as a form of “Art reviewing art”, and Rei Kawakubo and Martin Margiela keep proposing dresses that inspire the wearers to think about dressing. Could it be that there exists a whole different level that self-expression can only reach after going through the painful stage of self-reference?”

Works of Masanobu Sugatsuke laid out for EDITORIAL PARADISE.

When i visited you at you last time in Tokyo at your office – we had not seen each other for quite a long time.

Meanwhile you had halted “Composite” , and published your book “Editorial Paradise” revisiting your inventive editorial work of the last 25 years. Interestingly, this reflection coincided with a turning point, a time where the role of the editor is challenged through mechanics introduced by new media. To me it almost felt like a “katharsis” (精製) – in this context. Not only a personal one…

Talking about my book “Editorial Paradise”, I think that a retrospective book of a living editor sounds strange for everybody, even for me!
But to edit and launch it, it made me consider a lot about the role of editors and definition of editing nowadays.
I believe the role and definition of editors and editing has been drastically changing these days, because of the growing role of new media. But a few editors have been trying to define their new roles and public meaning.

“katharsis” you mentioned is quite a suitable word to describe my time editing this title. Editing this retrospective is like confession for me. But confessing what?
I can tell you about it clearly now, I didn’t know the meaning of editing until that time.

For this book you told me you’ve decided to include everything from the volumes that you’ve done, which is somehow “anti-editing” – was that part of making you realise the meaning of editing? What is your conclusion?

I’ve always aimed to expand the definition of editing. Through the editing process of this editorial retrospective, I recognized that the changing state of editing my thinking simple-minded.
So, what I came across through this process, – it was fun but hard for me to think deeply about editing all the time all day long and I felt like being ouroboros – is that editing is not about media.
I think editing is a way of thinking. It’s not like making film, designing a website. It’s a purely abstract idea to make something concrete.

My definition of editing is quite simple.
1: Drawing up a project,
2: Recruiting a team of collaborators,
3: Creating something,

They are the three basic conditions of editing, I think. If someone does something with these three conditions, whatever it is, I’d like to say “that’s editing”.

Sleeve of EDITORIAL PARADISE with an illustration of Masanobu Sugatsuke by Florence Deygas and a recent LIBERTINES cover

It’s something rare in this profession to put a focus on the act of editing itself, especially one’s own and in such a radical way as with your latest book.

As you can see, editors have been defined as interpreting someone to someone else, or something to something else. That means “Don’t express your own voice through your works. You are an in-between guy!”.
That’s 50% right. But there are so many high-profile advertising creative people all over the world. They are not behind the media at all nowadays.

I believe editors are mainly present in-between and behind media, but sometimes they are beyond media, i.e, Anna Wintour, who is Cabinet Minister of the Ministry of Cool, Terry Jones, Everlasting Evangelist of Street Style and Olivier Zahm, the second Gainsbourg.

I believe we, creative people, have to label ourselves. In other words, we have to “transform life into creation”.
Because, in this 21st Century, our creative lives are almost viewed and leaked by web and twitter.
It’s been getting hard for creative people to avoid being watched or criticized by ordinary people now.

Iconic editors from the past seem in this context like vanguards of another time to come:
Diane Vreeland (American Vogue) or, on another side of the spectrum, Hugh Heffner (Playboy), both transcended their editorial vision with their personal lives.

Today’s ever more fragmented stream of information requests perhaps a stronger necessity of structure through the personal standpoint…

How do you think the element of today’s over-exposure is influencing the role of the editor?

Over-exposure is big phenomena in our world, not just for editors. Modern people are fame-addicted.
On the other hand, we can show our way of living as an art piece. Lady Gaga’s case is the most excessive one, and Haruki Murakami’s case is the most stoic.
But both are most successful presentations of life as art piece today.

As I said, our creative lives are mostly viewed, watched by the media and each action are “timeline”d.
So if you can’t avoid it, you have to be determined to show your life as whole art piece, as if Andy Warhol presented us.
So, Warhol said “Everyone will be famous for 15 minutes” in the 60’s.
But now everybody became Andy Warhol, just like taking photo everyday, quoting somebody’s ideas and images and commenting as one phrase philosopher on twitter or blogs.

Our creative works are slices of our creative lives. People nowadays have a tendency to prefer the real lives of creative people to their work.

Spread of "AISIAN FASHION NOW" from a recent issue of LIBERTINES. Photo by Leslie Kee

In these times, the stream of facebook statuses, tweets and re-tweets, tumblr and so on form a new way of consuming information.
You recently mentioned Paper.li to me – which seems like an attempt to “master” this stream almost a form of an “automatic generating editor”….

Yes, “Paper.li” is a kind of semi-auto-updated personal web magazine. On the web, if you curate something, you can be an cool editor. Therefore “first hand” is getting more important for media and creative people. Audiences can’t get interviews of celebrities and take their photo first hand.
So, “first hand” sources and high profile people are the last sanctuary of professional media and creative people.
But if they are lazy to maintain “first hand” capability, audiences will rob it.

The internet is certainly a big accelerator of this “theft”!
What we’re missing out besides “first hand” is the synthesis of information and its digestive analysis.
I am wondering how do you expect the print media to react to this and how you see its perspectives in the long run, in balance with the digital publishing?

I expect that print media will live with digital media in symbiosis. I believe print media will survive, as opera and theatre play do.
But not mainstream in the media.
There are two kind of information, flow and stock.
Internet is a best media of flow information. Print media is a best of stock information.
For creative people, beautiful books must be great tangible assets.
In this 21st Century, tangibility and physical experience can be more important because internet cannot provide them.

Opener of the Yohji Yamamoto Interview of LIBERTINES

You have recently halted publishing your most recent print magazine “libertines”-
what was your experience with this? Were the reasons related to the shift in publishing that we’re talking about?

Talking about the end of “Libertines” magazine, I think I was a little bit too optimistic about the advertising climate and today’s readers. It was my fault.
Advertising for magazine has been drastically decreasing. I knew it. But I had estimated that I could have get a certain amount of it when I started “Libertines”.
But I couldn’t. It was worst time to start a new magazine in Tokyo with a professional level of budget.

Plus, I thought we could get a number of readers similar to what we had before. So, for the first issue of “Libertines”, we had a special feature about twitter culture.
We had exclusive report about twitter headquarters in San Francisco in it.
As you can imagine, we got big buzz on twitter and web when it came out.
BUT this buzz were not enough to sell magazine.

It is a similar situation for musicians and the web. If some musicians get big buzz on twitter and facebook, but their record sales are not related with buzz unfortunately these days.
It happens in magazine world.

I think “buying magazines” has become an old habit, or habit for people over 30’s.
If you aim to produce youth culture-medias and package contents, there are few actual youth consumers who buy them naturally.

On the other hand, I’ve been directing another magazine “Metro Min.” for two years as creative director, it is quite successful because it’s a monthly free lifestyle magazine which is published by a major publisher.

So, it is hard to sell magazine to the FREE generation. I’ve been struggling with this issue.
I don’t have a clear solution for it. But I’m not pessimistic about the future of magazines. I think publishers and editors have to organize a new kind of structure to make profit not only to produce print medias.

I believe there are great examples in the movie industry. The movie industry is not just about movie theatre nowadays as you know. It is an environment with movies.

I think that’s the hint for editors.

Covers of METRO MIN, the most recent publication of Masanobu Sugatsuke

Where do you see the future?

I’ve been thinking about the fate of both print media and new media all the time as I mentioned in our previous conversations.
And as you see, nobody knows. But there is one certain thing that I can say, that is if you love something, you’d like to own and touch it.
Same as your lover. That’s the human nature which will not change forever.

People nowadays talk mainly figures and speed of modern media. But media are not only produced by them. Of course, these specs are important.
But images, sympathies, affections and favoritism are very important elements of media.
If these elements are all included in one media, then it will be a loved media no matter if it’s in the form of digital or print.

I believe that creative people have to concentrate on how to produce a loved media to audiences. I think that’s the priority.

The last thing stimulated that stimulated you?

So many things and it is hard to answer to choose one particular thing.
Here is the list what I was stimulated after 3.11, the Great Earthquake in Japan.

# Cindy Lauper concert in Tokyo on March 17th, just 6 days after Earthquake.
Cindy is a quite brave artist who did Japan tour in such a catastrophic situation and she commented during each break between songs to encourage audience in Japan.
She sang her masterpiece “True Colors” in encore with mix of John Lennon’s “Power to the people” and almost the whole audience, including me, wept.

# Takashi Homma photo exhibition at Tokyo Opera City Gallery in April
Homma’s biggest exhibition in Tokyo which shows his conceptual landscape in Japan and Los Angels which was collaborated with Mike Mills.

# Jane Birkin Charity live at Shibuya Club Quattro, April 6th
Jane Birkin is not just an actress or singer. She is a role model of modern women.

# Anti-Nuclear Demonstration in Koenji, Tokyo, April 10th
Most biggest and joyful anti-nuke action in Japanese history. So many musicians joined it and I participated in it. People have the power!

# Saburo Teshigawara dance performance at Kawasaki City art center, May 6th
It is a final answer to the question “How can movement of human body be radical and beautiful”. Teshigawara does European Tour this Autumn. Must-See!

# Henry Darger exhibition at Laforet Museum Harajuku, Tokyo, May
Legendary outsider artist’s big retrospective. So innocent and scary.

# Yohji Yamamoto’s 30th anniversary party of his brand at Y.Y boutique in Tokyo, June 1st

Yamamoto is a last samurai of cutting edgy couturier. Congratulation!

He has a bum fetish, just like everyone else.

BIKE by Justin Anderson, for Armani Jeans. Still by René Habermacher.

Antoine Asseraf: What is the last thing that stimulated you ?
Justin Anderson: On Friday night – I watched a film by Jean Pierre Melville – ARMY OF SHADOWS.

It had a big effect on me.  It is brutal but very paired down without any melodrama. None of the actors either particularly young or good looking, the direction is tight and  the subject really tough. It is about the French resistance to German occupation – it is about death, betrayal and torture.

The film was gripping was absolutely masterful. What I love is that I discovered this film because I loved the way Alain Delon looked in LE FLIC in his raincoat – which then led me to such a film. I feel very lucky to live in a time in which it is so easy to discover these kinds of gems and I love the fluid way you can to move from one to the other.

So, which would you say are you main influences in film-making – classic films such as the ones you just mentioned, or more experimental fare ?
All kinds of image making influence me particularly fine art – which is how I trained. I would say the paintings of Fontana, Morandi, Barnett Newman, Stella, Ryman, the sculptures of Brancusi, Donald Judd artist like Walter de Maria. Dan Graham, Bruce Nauman were particular influence to me. These have all impacted on my filmmaking as much or more so than other film makers because that is what I studied for years. I suppose my taste currently in film making are as you say classics. I was hugely influenced by Buñuel when I was introduced to it as a 14 year old boy by a very good art teacher at school – he knew exactly how to stimulate a 14 year old boy.

Currently I working my way through the classic European film makers of the last century, Bergman, Antonioni, Chabrol, Renoir and recently Melville. Having not studied film I feel like I have a lot to catch up on.

UNTITLED VIDEO STILL by Justin Anderson. Courtesy of Gerwerbe Karl Marx Gallery, Berlin.

So how did you transition from fine art – painting if I’m correct – to video ?
I started working in video quite along time ago whilst still studying at the Rijksakademie in Amsterdam. The work was structuralist and minimal – I chewed gum live on television for 5 minutes, made a video in NYC where I drew the lines of a huge tennis court across midtown Manhattan and the dove them with a camera attached to the roof of a car. The video camera was moved through space like making a drawing – instead of leaving a marking on the space you were recording what is there.

I made a video of a guy dressed in protective sports gear standing against a wall and shouting “Just do it” in German whilst I served tennis balls at him as hard as I could. It was quite violent (our friendship ended soon after!).

At the time I was making very large paintings of  the lines on parts of sports courts- it all seemed to flow from one to another- the video camera was just another from of mark making. The videos had virtually no editing and certainly no close ups or variants in the shots.

Was it a long time between the time you started working with video and your first commercial video job?
Also it’s interesting that you had no editing at first because it seems that now it’s one of your strengths…
No I was very lucky – I came back to London from Amsterdam and a friend hooked me up with a guy who worked in an ad agency (called BBH, I had never heard of it) to help cut my videos into some kind of showreel. He was very kind and we spent the night sitting in a little room that smelt of boys and pizza. The next day he called me up and asked me if I would like to make something for Levi’s. I started editing straight away on this job – I have always felt that editing is quite like painting – it is question of throwing on image on top of another, sometimes very gently other times not gently at all.

And after that did you continue making videos in a fine-art context ?
I did but less so – the focus was less and less on the art context. The gallery thing became less important – I drifted away from the art world.  I made some shorts showed in experimental film nights, Raindance festival, that kind of thing. When I look at some of my peers from art school like Martin Creed or Michael Raedecker, I feel very pleased that some people carried on in that context and made a real success of it but I drifted away from the career artist and what that means in terms of the art world.

I think my approach to editing is somewhat unschooled and a bit brutal – I don’t really think of it as knowledge, sometimes I feel like I am hitting the timeline with a big stick. But I think it probably affects my relationship with a DOP because as editor and director I sit either side of the DOP in the process and it is like being two people.

MORANTE DE LA PUEBLA by Justin Anderson. Courtesy of Photographers' Gallery, London.

Do you ever do the filming yourself, without a DoP ?
I certainly have done – my framing is quite specific, I shoot stills and know a little about lighting. However I would always prefer to use a DOP – filmmaking is so much about team work and I would rather have a good team.

Art direction is a job I found most difficult to delegate- my idea is very specific and haven’t yet figure out how to explain it instead of just doing it myself. I hope in time that will come and I will be able to work with people who bring unexpected and interesting things that I could never think of.

After that Levi’s experience, did you do anything fashion related before House of Flora, which (correct me if I’m wrong) was your first fashion film ?
I did quite a lot of work for Levi’s in the end and also some work for Ferragamo – at one point I almost convinced them to let me shoot their catwalk show in 16mm film – they were convinced by the idea – my pitch was that all catwalk shows were shot in exactly the same way and we could make something really fantastic that would stand out. The reason they didn’t end up doing it was because they didn’t know what they would do the following season. At the time they had Ray Charles playing live at the show so I don’t think budget was the problem, it might have just been too early for the fashion film.

Why fashion ?
On a personal level I have always loved fashion – as a very small child I spayed my building blocks silver and cellotaped to the bottoms of my shoes to make them into platforms. As a filmaker I love the opportunity fashion allows – its extremity, its humour, its craft and formalism, its sensuality and irreverence and its absolute and unashamed pursuit of beauty.

I think we are in a very lucky time, to be filmakers at the birth of such a thing.
My ambition is to push it as far as I can whilst (just) staying on the right side of pretentious!

LEVIS' RED TAB / LOS ANGELES by Justin Anderson for Levis'. Agency BBH.

So actually you had done quite a few fashion – related things before House of Flora – why do you think the pace has picked up since that film which was what, 2008 ?
Many things. Clearly a large part of it technology driven – the ability to stream quality moving image and therefore websites becoming like moving magazines. Cheaper cameras and editing equipment has meant the entry level is much lower rather film making being the preserve of the super big budgets. The price of catwalk shows though I am not sure it will ever replace these and because it’s fashion… It is a thing, it is fashionable and a fantastic way to show clothes, accessories shoes etc etc.

It is really the perfect medium- the real surprise is why it has taken so long. They are a  few beautiful older ones the YSL films in Marrakech and obviously an innovator like Hussien Chalayan has been at it for quite some time but for the most it is as you know just a few years old.  What will be interesting is how all these megabites of fashion content flying around will effect the industry – it is becoming the new MTV…. maybe the next generation will be talking about Chalayan instead of Jay-Z?

I think Lady Gaga is on to something – her fashion is a lot more interesting than the music. The same argument could be said of Madonna but I think the music and the fashion went closer hand in hand.

(smily face)

I agree that right now, music videos are probably the best things to compare to fashion film to better understand them.

For example music videos started as just recordings of live performances, just as fashion film started as recordings of fashion shows, and in both cases we don’t expect the live event to go anywhere soon…

Fashion film is in its infancy right now so i think it’s exciting because it could still go in a lot of different directions, there are very few imposed rules. But do you have any rules you impose on yourself when you make a (fashion) film ?
I agree there are very few rules and that is fantastic but the lack of structure can cause it’s own set of possible problems. My personal fear is that my work would be pretentious or boring, so that is probably my self-imposed rule. The lack of structure makes it much too easy to fall into this trap and the line between interesting/strange and dull/ pretentious can be very thin. Sometimes I use humour to try and keep things moving in the right direction – this I think comes right out of the Bunuelian tradition.

Dadaists and Surrealists used humour to subvert the establishment after the horrors of the first World War – that’s me being pretentious!

LEVIS' RED TAB / LOS ANGELES by Justin Anderson for Levis'. Agency BBH.

Certainly there seems to be a lot of less than exciting fashion films out there – why do think that is ?
Do you think with fashion film we’ll see a return of humour in fashion ?
I think there are just a lot of fashion films out there and whether they are exciting or not I am not sure – what I do know is that I would gladly never sit though another dream sequence.

As for humour I think there is a lot of it and has always been there.  Giles deacon a designer I would love to work with has a lot of humour – Marc Jacobs LV show was hilarious in a really fantastic way.

Hookers, chambermaids, wives and mistresses in luxury clothes in a hotel.

BIKE by Justin Anderson, for Armani Jeans. The Stimuleye project.

Regarding humour I’ve noticed indeed that you are often quite cheeky – both figuratively and literally… let’s be frank now, do you have a bum fetish ?
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t want to have a quick look if they see a great arse walking down the street. I count everyone man/ woman/ gay/ straight/ bi. I think I am just exploring that with the camera frame in which there is nowhere to hide from that fact that you are staring at somebody’s butt! However I don’t want to be stuck with one part of the body though… There is lots more to explore.

(smily face)

So do you think fashion films are going to need to be more careful about plot devices or narrative — are we going to see fashion film scriptwriters ?
Because it doesn’t seem music videos ever developed that – and yet saying that I can’t remember a video since Thriller that has used the dream sequence…
We should be careful about taking the music video analogy too literally as most songs already have a story attached – I think as fashion films grow there will inevitable be developments but not necessarily plot as such but an idea always goes along way. Weirdly at the moment some of the most interesting work I think is still coming from a fairly traditional ad campaign idea WE ARE ANIMALS, by Wrangler – the idea is strong so you can throw somebody out of  a window- set fire to them- stick them in a swamp, it all seems to work pretty well.

But I feel like something like this is very “advertising”, concept-driven. For print at least, fashion (and high fashion especially) has tried to stay away from such concepts (with the notable exception of Diesel of course), as if ideas were the enemy of beauty, trying to stay in purely visual moods… you don’t think they can sustain that with film ?

In print the editorial story has provided a great frame work for ideas.  I am thinking about the “nunhead” story for POP a few years ago and Klein’s Vogue Italia rehab shoot that certainly stick out. A film can certainly be sustained on purely strong visual moods but I count those as ideas too. What I am not sure is enough is a beautiful girl or guy – beautiful clothes and beautiful lighting.

DRESS NUMBER ONE by Justin Anderson, for House Of Flora. Part of SHOWstudio Futuretense series.

Let’s move on to the first film of yours which I saw, The House of Flora film which was part of SHOWstudio’s Future Tense series.
The first House of Flora project came about through chance, friendship and sublet. I was subletting part of a studio for painting which was where House of Flora was. They were drilling plastic, designing dresses whilst I was making abstract paintings- I didn’t want to share a studio with another painter I thought it would be more interesting to converse across another discipline.

Alex Fury at Showstudio had asked HOF to submit a film so the project evolved from a conversation that went something like. “Do you want to make a film?” ” Yes.”

This film was called Dress No 1 and was something of a success.  It was shot with natural light- the sun shone all day and the shoot was one of those one where everything goes  just right. Luck I think.

The next season we decided to make Dress number 2 and I started to try different things with lighting and using two locations. We shot half in an office of an Architect Will Alsop- in fact the stationary cupboard and half in the printing workshop at Middlesex University. I also started to work very closely with music and sound design. I work with the same guy and have done so since dress No 1- Pete Diggens- the process is often hard and sometimes even torturous- (for him not me), because describing sound can be very difficult but I think some of the best results have come form some very hard tough work. The collaboration element here is very important for me – going forward my wish is build relationships with DOP’s, Art directors etc in the same way.

DRESS NUMBER TWO - LETTERHEAD by Justin Anderson, for House Of Flora.

I remember being impressed by Dress Number 2 – Dress 1 was striking in its framing, editing and sound, but Dress Number 2 had an intensity to it, maybe due to the image quality ?? Anyway, then you had a big success with Chore, which was launched on Vogue UK…
Chore was a very important step for me – we shot it with what I would call a full size crew –  about 25 people and this makes everything entirety different. Much slower but also more precise and considered – the slowness means that you cannot shoot as much but it also allows you time to work with the shapes- which is something I really like. We shot on 16mm in two days and I made sure I had a large female element to the crew. I didn’t want the film to feel like a whole load of boys perving at a girl’s butt, It was very important to be girl sexy not just some cheap male fantasy.

Also the subject Lingerie is full of cliché- so I was very determined to try and approach this subject in an original way. I all wanted to be sexy but not seedy so I have to tread a very careful line between perversion and perversion. Humour was an important element to keeping this film light on it’s feet whilst indulging the long very obvious butt shots!

When Chore launched it moved very fast- almost crashing the vogue site, got to 48,000 hits on you tube very quickly before someone in the US decided it was too hot.. And has now had over 1 million hits – which I great for a film that was never seeded. I am however not naive enough to think  that this is just because of my filmmaking genius!

CHORE by Justin Anderson, for Damaris.

I thought you did a brilliant job of taking the lingerie genre, turning it on its head, while still giving the audience what they came for… I thought also the humour was well managed, because it sex and humour can be a very strange mix — how do you feel about Benny Hill by the way ?
When I first left Art School I worked for an artist who had a studio in Teddington – just outside London. Benny Hill lived just around the corner and we always used to joke that we might see him walking down the street with a string of Sausages on the way back from the butcher followed by a pack of Dachshunds. Of course we never saw him but the image was always there.

I do love humour and maybe there is something of the Bunuelian in Benny Hill too.

A POEM FOR A, by Justin Anderson, part of ASVOFF Light Series.

Nice.

But then, soon after Chore, is when I approached you with the Light Series brief, for which you did “A Poem For A” – a completely different universe. How did the idea of the poem come about ?
War played its part.

The brief was tough – because all film is about light.  I started to think about making  a dark film with cracks of light, that kind of white light you have creeping through when you try and keep a room cool a hot climate. I used a dress by Roksanda Ilincic which I really loved and cast a very beautiful black girl to also contrast the light colour of the fabric. The dress reminded me of 70’s YSL and then I stumbled on a poem that was written in Paris is 1974.

It was written by Harold Pinter about his then lover and subsequent wife Lady Antonia Fraser. I was never a huge fan of Harold Pinter really because I didn’t know him until I saw him give a speech in Hyde Park on an anti-Gulf war march. His speech was one of those great moments, he had so much fire and fury in his belly that it still burns for me.

‘The United States  is a monster out of control. Unless we challenge it with absolute determination  American barbarism will destroy the world. The country is run by a bunch  of criminal lunatics, with Blair as their hired Christian thug…’

Since that moment I followed Pinters politics and then sadly  his ‘progess’ with cancer.  this Poem I saw read by  a bunch of actors at a tribute to him after his death. I found it quite moving because it was a love Poem by a man who had be famed for being very caustic. Again the opposite. A tender moment from the firey old bastard.

That film had 2 elements which I particularly liked.  First, as for Chore, the sound design seemed less music noise and more like “sculpted noise” which worked really well.

Then, I thought it was refreshing to have graphic and textual elements in film, to contrast with the image…
Sound is really important- I work very closely with a guy called Pete Diggens. His approach to sound is very close to the graphic textual elements you are talking about.  We spend a lot of time using adjectives like scratchy, squelchy, sucking, rasping, empty, ticklish… Or…  it sounds like something is happening next door … In fact often the real challenge is find the language to describe the sound.

As for the visual side – my challenge to myself is to push the image in a graphic way- the female form has such fantastic shapes it is great to be able to play with then in this way.

Moving on to the Armani trilogy, I think it’s kind of interesting actually how different facets of you work came across the 3 different films: in the Jeans film, we can see the “fantastic female shapes” you were just mentioning, in the EA7 sports film the graphic element is very strong, and in the Emporio film, it’s the sensuality… three very different ways of developing the theme of the Chase.

The Armani trilogy was an entirely new challenge. To begin with there were parameters set – two of the films had to be shot outside, we had to include at least five characters and the films had to work across quite different platforms- online and on massive store screens. The different clothing ranges were entirely different and for logistical constraints we had to use the same five models. Therefore I know I would have to give each film its own strong identity. The Jeans Bike film is probably the most tongue-in-cheek film of the three and was meant to be quite light hearted.

(As a footnote – I have just been reading some online comments about it and it has been posted by some fixed wheel bike forums. As we are all much more obsessed by negative criticism I have been reading some hilarious comments by bike forums who seem to take their mode of transport as well as themselves rather seriously. I still get a lot of comments about Chore also – most are very complimentary but occasionally I get negative, interestingly from men who take offence on behalf of womankind.)

GARDEN by Justin Anderson, for Emporio Armani. The Stimuleye project.

Most of these films involve models, but when shooting this trilogy in Athens, I could feel a slight difference in attitude coming from Theoharis Ionnidis, the male character in the Emporio film, who is an actor rather than model. Was it just me or did you notice that too ? How do you feel about models vs actors in the nascent genre of fashion film ?
Your question about models is quite pertinent as fashion film, in its infancy, is having to address this issue. When casting models – it can be a bit of pot luck. I have a lot of respect for models- I think it is a pretty tough job – they are often very young and have had no formal training – they have grown up knowing and being told they are beautiful (which created its own complications) and then have entered a job in which they spend most of the time being rejected after 3 minutes on how they look.

When we cast them – our primary criteria is do “they look right for the part” but have very little time to find out how they will be able to act on the day. During the Armani casting some of the models had a fabulous physique and looked amazing but when we asked them to run their gait was surprisingly uncoordinated and awkward. I think the point about Theoharis is that as an actor – he probably has had formal training- he is used to taking direction and above all he has stamina. Making films is tough- the more beautiful and effortless they look, the more tough they were to make. Standing in cocktail dress outside in the cold and making love to the camera is no picnic!

CHASE, by Justin Anderson, for EA7. The Stimuleye project.

Things are really moving forward for you these days, can you talk a bit more about that ? What are your current and upcoming projects ?
As for upcoming projects I have two very exciting projects I am currently working on that I am afraid at this time I am not allowed to mention. I have just teamed up with a new producer and working with a new production company Epoch London. This is an international company and with them I am hoping to move forward securing the kinds of budgets that have traditionally been handed out to stills campaigns to make some (hopefully) interesting and groundbreaking films.

Collaborating with Dutch designer Irma Boom, Jennifer Butler has published an innovative book: JAMES JENNIFER GEORGINA, a taxi yellow, 1200 pages volume in limited editions of 999 copies, parted in three sections with a joint spine, telling a unique story through 1136 postcards and 20 dialogues.

Jennifer travelled the world with her husband James, in an effort to dry him out from his alcoholism, while their daughter Georgina stayed at home with various nannies, but Jennifer sent her daughter 1 postcard per day away –  1136 postcards written from 1989 to 1999.

205 flights taken, 268,162 miles driven, 2 bullfights.

A speeding ticket.

53 unpaid parking tickets.

13 cancelled flights, 1 bomb scare, and 205 churches visited, politics, wars, rising prices, births, funerals, holidays…

Yet what comes forward above all is their relationship.

JAMES, JENNIFER, GEORGINA by Jennifer Butler. The 3 spine design allows to lay the book flat

We meet at the American Library in Paris, 23 years after the odyssey started.

As they arrive, Jennifer, a former model, on her side her very British gentleman James, holds a copy of the book in her hands, spiked with post-its of matching yellow. She is in full swing, mentioning another book by Allen Fletcher: “Be aware of wet paint,” he wrote in his beautiful handwriting: ‘I don’t know where I am going, but I am on my way’ and it really sums me up: I don’t know ever where I am going, but I have a sense that I am gonna get there!”.

It was in fact Allen Fletcher’s work, and particularly “The Art of Looking Sideways” that made her look differently at the value of the hundreds of postcards she had kept in boxes after 10 years on the road. When in 1999 the drinking of James stopped, so did the postcards. In 2007, Allen Fletcher was only a few months more to live, so he recommended to Jennifer to work on her project with Dutch designer Irma Boom.

Jennifer Butler at the American Library Paris

Behind the book, says Butler, lies a passion “for extending the boundaries of what a book can be. And the knowledge that books have to be more, different than ‘information.’ More than being able to download them from the internet” she says.  According to her, ‘the book’ is not in the ‘up’ – it’s in the ‘down’:

“The book remains to spread something else: maybe sheer beauty or a much slower, more thought-provoking message” Jennifer expresses in her first correspondence with Irma Boom, sharing the designer’s standpoint on book-making today.

Despite the highly sophisticated and calculated design, JAMES JENNIFER GEORGINA is an emotional matter: “The book is an extension of the content. Irma would not have designed that way for a book about tennis players, or about architecture, whatever. This book is married to the silk screen yellow that she chose, and the yellow canvas. The book is yellow because its full of light and success! […]”

“My husband, Georgina’s father, was drinking himself to death. And with one failed marriage behind me I fought to stave off a second.” James was given only two more years to live, so  “to save us I took the difficult decision to leave Georgina at home. We travelled to dry James out and we travelled to shield her from the indignities of drink. Everyday we were apart I wrote to Georgina. If love waits upon a gesture, then my gesture was these postcards. I wanted her to know just who I was and just what I did. They’re a testament to a mother’s love and a sharing of advice, anecdotes, front page news and exotic places” she explains.

Cassette with the Book of 1200 pages, sewn in yellow cloth

“The post cards were never written for public consumption. They were written because I loved doing them.

And I did miss Georgina. And I did feel guilty and it was a way, felt like mothering from a distance.”

For Jennifer, it is actually a very traditional story: “there is a situation, a lot of descriptions with the postcards of a story, there is drama and there are 3 characters. They’re just divided in a very innovative way, because the description and the situation is part 1, the drama is part 2, and the characters are in an album in part  3. Usually when you read about a family or a story or a novel it’s all in one. […] ” She continues, “when people hear the word alcoholism – you know its like a dirty word or somebody survived it. The alcoholism really gave the book its Alfred Hitchcock time element.”

Jennifer admits that there was certainly a bit of irresponsibility concerning the traveling, looking back on it:

“The structure was: let’s go. Like Thelma and Louise. And I was so excited having James sober and clean shaven!  He was adorable and generous and he is so knowledgeable about Europe, its history and its wars. It was like being back in university when we were driving! And there was no drink. Because he was so excited being on the road. So it really was not just about keeping him sober. He was sober and I loved the way he was.”

Postcard from Granada, February 10, 1996

The book is framing this story of longing guilt and salvation for a wider audience in a fresh way. Despite the 210 postcards that are printed full bore in the volume, accompanied by 400 in miniature, most remarkably, the book also features a series of conversations between James, Georgina and Jennifer: “One guideline that Georgina said, and James backed her 100% up was: there would be no editing! […] “

Irma Boom, according to Jennifer, had approached the book with an enormous integrity and much love for its protagonists had insisted “that we pose the question to Georgina in one of the conversations: what was the sacrifice made by not being there. I said: ‘oh, isn’t this fantastic, Georgina spends every night looking at them.’ My mother said: ‘this is disgusting! my granddaughter is alone a third of her life!’ – of course the people who love you tell you the biggest truths.”

“It was never ever difficult [to talk about our issues as a family]. We’re all very strong characters and I think the love is so loyal that nobody worried about sacrificing love. It was never difficult to talk about the painful subjects: most of all it’s a love story.”

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“Daddy has been brilliant. His French is so good the natives want to claim him.” postcard from March 17, 1992

The [conversation] number 17, the ambush in fact, really laid to rest the most painful experience other then my adoption in my life. I was adopted. And I think one of the reasons why I married James, unconsciously, was that he came from this family which dated back from the doomsday book.  And he never humiliated me or said anything.”

Jennifer recalls being on a bus in Elmira, in upstate NY, where she grew up- and the bus was about to go by where she lived at the time, when she heard a woman saying: ” ‘Oh yes, that’s where Dr. Gladstine’s  adopted daughter lives” and the woman she was sitting with said “Oh, I wonder why Mrs. Gladstine couldn’t have any children.” Again these details inspired me to be a writer. I needed to get this horror on paper, but I still feel an outsider. It’s still an ulcer and very sore point. But I accept it more now, I am not so angry. It’s hard to be adopted, you wonder why your mother could not handle it.”

“Growing up in a small town where gossip had the most real estate value, you become very observant. And I had big ears!”.

"This is my favorite photo of all time" postcard from April 24, 1996

She witnessed another incident, that she describes us. Being about seven, she was walking home from the playground: “I saw sister Ignacious who was the head sister at Saint Joseph’s Hospital where my father was chief of staff – and she was smoking a cigarette! With her elbow outside the window of the station wagon she was driving – and I could not wait to get home to describe… it just seemed inappropriate for a nun to be smoking a cigarette and be driving with one hand! like the teenagers were doing.”

This impression still inspires her, and is probably one of the reasons that brought her to writing and yielded to a correspondence with Simone de Beauvoir she wrote to me “Vous avez beaucoup de talent” — I was thrilled! I slept with the letter! I still carry it around with me!”

In 1959 she won the New York State historical society contest in writing an essay about a village called Horseheads, NY, and the reason of how it came to be called that. “I won 50 dollars! that was an enormous amount of money to a kid!” she says.

Jennifer had laid aside another novel she was working on before James, Jennifer, Georgina:

“Fuji Views”, that she stopped mid-stream, halfway through with about 100 chapters, using the structure of the views: “you know how it’s to write like a train – and I just stopped. In fact I was talking about Joanne, the main character yesterday. It’s definitely on a front burner.”

We ask Jennifer to tell us a little about the Postcards themselves: “Of course I hated choosing 210 of 1136 postcards. it was like abandoning the things I’d  written and loved. As Steinbeck would say: “get rid of all the pretty little things.”

The first Postcard to Georgina, from October 25, 1989

“This is the opening one and it says: “Oui love you more than Paris”- And the “we” is spelled “Oui” its a postcard of a painting of Berthe Morisot of a mother looking at her baby in a cradle. Georgina would have been four months old at that time, and she would not have come home from the hospital until she was three months old because she weighted not even a kilo when she was born. So this was the first postcard that I wrote to her. We didn’t travel while she was in hospital.”

Postcard from London, Mai 6, 1997

“I like this one: ” there is a great effort to be common, common manners or common collars, common ideas, everything but common sense. a kind of tore-poor. flat brain, flat line” and its a cartoon of Tony Blair.”

Postcard from March 22, 1998

“At the end when things were really deteriorating – it’s bad. You know I am taking Prozac and I definitely say ‘this has got to stop!’ James cried when he re-read all the postcards in the last few days.”

The last Postcard from December 11, 1999

“I love the stamp! it reminds me of Rothko, who is one of my favourite artists, because he makes me calm. The last postcard was not chosen because what it said, it was by chance. Because this book has been cosmic and there been a lot of luck. It says, ‘is there is an old french proverb translated: “the simpler the explanation, the closer the truth.”  And it’s true.”

“This book, is really a very simple book. When you think, its postcards, they are usually such a cliché, they are so ordinary. One would not be interesting, but 1136 were hugely interesting!

One reason why I chose, that I knew why Allen Fletcher had recommended Irma, was because I didn’t like Helvetica. You’re laughing! It’s not that i dislike Helvetica- I understand Helvetica and it’s very clean and very accessible, but I hate the G’s !

And if you look at my handwriting, you know my handwriting is unique to me. As Georgina said “I simply have tried a thousand times to forge your signature and I can’t!” and the way I write physically and the pen that I use is always been incredibly relevant to what I write. And I still write long hand I don’t write on the computer. So yes, its Palatino and Neuzeit.

I love the questions that she asked and that she allowed me the arguments. We had passionate fights were we didn’t talk to each other for several days. She would TNT the book with all of these post its. And then on my computer there would be a magenta line which meant: “I don’t like this – fix it!

We communicated and we never signed our emails. Our motive communication was that we didn’t put the X for “love” at the end- that was: ‘I hate you at this moment.’ and we both used it. We both developed a culture and a vocabulary between our selves working together.

Jennifer Butler at the American Library Paris

One of the 1136 Postcards written to Georgina was addressed to Jennifer – from James.

And here they sit at a table late at night, engaged in conversations to different directions but holding hands across an empty chair of someone left earlier, Jennifer mentions the books impact to her personally:

“I would never have learned so much about our marriage and our relationship if I didn’t have it a year and a half later to read. All these moments would have been forgotten if the postcards wouldn’t have been written. And the photographs — I would have forgotten whatIi looked like when I was a young girl!

All these things…. it’s not a tragedy that I am old, because I have the evidence of what it was like to be young. I would not want to be that age again. I made so many mistakes! And my husband thinks I am gorgeous – and he tells me everyday…”

JAMES, JENNIFER, GEORGINA

Jennifer Butler (Text)

Irma Boom (Concept & Design)

Erwin Olaf (Portrait Photos)

London/Amsterdam 2010

Yellow cloth sewn/in cassette 1200 pages

Unique binding method with coloured edges

Full colour illustrations

Text in English

Edition limited to 999 copies

Price: € 999.00